Curse

Vel Satis · May 05, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Sorry, just a quick question, everyone is saying the assassin should be teleporting in and out but if he has aggro, what happens? Does he just lose the aggro and the monster switches to another target or does it follow him?

Kaguya · May 05, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel Satis

Sorry, just a quick question, everyone is saying the assassin should be teleporting in and out but if he has aggro, what happens? Does he just lose the aggro and the monster switches to another target or does it follow him?

They seem to usually pick another target rather than pursue the pesky assassin long ways back. GW doesn't really have "aggro" or "taunt" system which would make the mobs "hate" targets with such passion to make them follow them around long ways.

Bit like kiting on a monk, the mob doesn't follow very long time until it picks a stationary target to gank.

Argen · May 05, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Assassins like IW Mesmers, Touch Necros, even some Earth Elementalist builds, need to heavily supported before they move in to a staying engagement. Which means monk support and hopefully a bond or three.

Anyways, I play a Boon/Prot or Healing Monk and I play Touch Necro and an Earth Ele. I understand the pains of both sides, but monks need to remember that Assassins are a quick fix, people wanted to play them and are just starting. Besides the "casual" 8 hour a day player

, most people are still coming up with a style for them. Yes, a month from now you will still get some A/W who thinks he is Tank, but you still get Wa/Mo's who use Frenzy and than charge in to combat to use Healing Signet on themselves. The moment that a class, such as monk becomes unfun for you, STOP. This is a game, if you are stressing out because of blame for not healing enough, STOP. If you are getting angry about a game, STOP. Most Assassins will learn, some will fade off, some will get deleted, and there will be a few who try to be Stance Tanks.

Remember the Monk Strike in ThK. Started out as a funny idea, than snowballed, had a guildie who was trying to get ThK done, set aside the day for it and got screwed with no peep monk being available. He quit the game, because it became that unfun, enough people quit the game, there won't be any buyers for expansions... no buyers... no more income... than the GW server support will die off.

So before you start screaming, "if you invite a Assassin in the party I'll quit and tell every other monk here not to join," remember that Assassin might take his buck somewhere else and not comeback at all to the game. Enough people get annoyed because the L33T monks get pissed, the game will fade away.

Anyone want to borrow my soapbox?

Tainek · May 05, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel Satis

Sorry, just a quick question, everyone is saying the assassin should be teleporting in and out but if he has aggro, what happens? Does he just lose the aggro and the monster switches to another target or does it follow him?

technically he should never have gathered aggro in the first place

the warriors do the usual of going in and gathering the aggro, the assasin pops in, takes out a caster, then pops out. if he gathers aggro , he did it wrong

pobblepop · May 05, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Probably been said already but it's just a matter of time before all the crap assasins give up and roll another toon and the assasins that understand what they're doing with their skills (I am getting there slowly as I understand how the combo attacks work) lead the way in hit and run tactics. As an assasin you MUST use some defensive skills and self heal, if you go in naked you will die rapidly. My skill bar atm is :-

Jagged Strike - Lead attack
Fox Fangs - Offhand attack
Repeating strikes - Offhand attack
Death Blossom - Dual Attack
Way of Empty Palm - elite (this with repeating attack is great)
Vipers Defence - teleport if in trouble
Shadow refuge - nice spamable health regen
Rez signet

Unless I get ganked by a hoard of monsters using this build I do good damage, can heal myself, regenerate a full bar of energy while spamming repeating strikes and teleport away if I get into trouble and hardly die unless the group is going down because of a bad pull or agro.

Xasew · May 05, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

The main problem is, that if you have only Rts, As and maybe a Monk in your team, the teleporting back and forth isn't gonna do much, because everyone is a soft target. If you have a Warrior ot two tanking, then it works extremely well, because they won't just follow you to the backline, but stop and target Warriors again.
And please, take the +15 armor while attacking for PvE... I mean 85 armor is actually enough for tanking if you have Flashing Blades or something similar. It's nowhere near what Stance Tanks do, but it should be enough.

Draxx · May 05, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I see the Sin as a class that would be helpful backing up 2 warriors and NOT the other way around, i would not want more than 1 Sin in a team for most aspects of guild wars, they are cool, and look awesome but people have gone MAD with them :P lol

i mean i'm considering losing my Sin and having another Warrior just because its not cool in anyway to be one anymore.

people actively dont take them on missions now.

a few days ago i grouped with a fantastic Sin and i would happilly take him or her with me on every mission, but the fact is because in alot of places in factions the only melee fighters available are assassins which sucks chunks i am a proud W/mo for my primary class and am also growing tired of the weekness more than 1 Sin brings to a team of 8.

(maybe if im feeling crazy 2 would be acceptable.)

i was in a group of 4 or 5 assassins the other day and i was like...

*ahem*... *backs away*... *whistles*... *leaves the town*... *takes henchmen* lol

-Not a attack at all assassins-

Parn · May 05, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Unfortunately Sins don't know thier support chars....Most run into battle with no reguard for life...It's gotten so bad that half the outpost I go to people scream "Mission group LF XXX NO More Assassins!" So us monks aren't alone in what we think. Most resources are used on these nimble little dagger wielders. Seems I have to carry 3 skills just for them since they never bring any dodgeing skills or stances...Healing Hands(cause they get beat on), Reversal (they get beat on soo much), Guardian spamming (oh yea can't dodge hits cause they don't know how to use what they can get for skills)

I have a ranger/Sin and never leave home without my Whirling defense/shadow refuge.

just my .02cents

p.s. please for the love of god learn to use your skills Sins.

Retribution X · May 05, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Assassians only have 70 armor! that's a good 30 less than a warrior! And they do less damage? and they still think that they have godmode.

I've gotten pretty pissed also.

But, Now I can play prophicies in peace. the noobs all went to cantha.

Rhuarc · May 05, 2006, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Wow, so much hate for assassins

I've been playing an assassin since factions hit the market, mostly henching it up and have noticed several things.
1. the henchies rarely heal me.
2. assassin armor is definitley not adequate for sustained tanking.
3. if you are going with henchies you must tank at some point.

with these things in mind I have found a very successful build for tanking and damage dealing.
I'm an A/R 20 btw
dagger mastery 13 (+26% dual strike chance)
critical mastery 12 (+12% crit chance) (+2 energy/crit)
shadow arts 3

Bestial Fury - stance, all non-attack skills disabled for 5 seconds. you attack 33% faster for 5 seconds.
Leaping Mantis Strike - Lead attack. +x damage
Fox Fangs - off-hand attack. Must follow a lead attack. +x damage - cannot be blocked or evaded
Critical Strike - Must follow an off-hand attack. +x damage will always crit.
Critical Defense - enchantment. for 6 second you have 65% chance to block incoming attacks, everytime you crit, this enchantment resets. (6 second timer restarts basically)
Shadow's Refuge - enchantment. for 4 seconds you gain health regen of 6 and at the end of shadow's refuge you gain 38 health if you are attacking.
Critical Eye - for 30 seconds you have a 6% greater chance to crit. You gain 1 energy everytime you crit.
Rez Signet

I have found this to be very effective. when entering combat I typically charge ritualists or mesmers first then other casters then melee, rangers usually last as they often use defensive skills that cost me to take to much time killing them.

typical strategy is to use critical eye for the bonus to crit, and then bestial fury. then combo attacks leaping mantis, fox fangs, critical strike.
If I start taking damage I use shadow's refuge and keep pounding away.
after the casters are neutralized I go for the meleer's.
melee tactics are much the same except that I usually go critical eye, critical defense and then bestial fury.
my crit chance is high enough that I can typically keep the defense enchantment up for 30-45 seconds before I don't crit within 6 seconds. unless the melee's are far away from each other, then it is charge and hope, but by then they are too few to do enough damage to kill me off as the rest of the henchies are also attacking them by then.

Personally I hope that most assassins in the future will be able to find a happy medium of skills that allow them to do damage and stay in a fight long enough on their own power that the monks aren't going crazy.

William Stark · May 05, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I created a new monk char for Cantha (thankyou for those new slots!) and finally had some time this week to join a few PuGs on the island.

First thing I noticed was that almost every group contained multiple assassins. Second thing was that about three quarters of them were complete idiots. Third thing: the more I healed them, the dumber they got.

I've only done the first mission and a few quests afterwards so far, which to be honest were pretty darn easy. What worries me is that if the assassin horde are having so much trouble at this early stage, what the heck is gonna happen to them when they get to something actually difficult?

Retribution X · May 05, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuarc

Wow, so much hate for assassins

We don't hate the class, It's the players that think they are god we hate. (Well, My warrior IS god. In my guild anyway...)

The class is great! just when the players set their skills, they forget that they have this little red bar... And then when they get into the field with NO HEALS, they scream at us monks.

And I just let their damn corpse rot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Stark

What worries me is that if the assassin horde are having so much trouble at this early stage, what the heck is gonna happen to them when they get to something actually difficult?

They die. and die again, then bitch about us monks not doing our job.

They also forget, I don't have 300 energy.

Master_Balgus · May 05, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Hmmm... just started a monk today with a friend of mine playing an assassin... let me just say, good thing I bought Life Bond! Seriously tho, I can see this as being a problem as I was using about 75% of my energy keeping them alive just questing around. To be fair to assassins tho, the only real problem in this scenario is learning to play the class, perhaps as the game gets older, the 'sins will improve to a level where their effectiveness is good enough that they wont need monks to keep them alive.

For the time being tho
/signed

tomcruisejr · May 05, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

there was this match that i watched.

war machine vs the last pride.

Wm Test Char (Assassin/Warrior) versus The Last of the Master (Warrior/Elementalist) 1 vs 1-ing in the obelisk stand.

and The Last of the Master got owned.

and i thought at that moment: Assassin > Warrior

Epinephrine · May 05, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Assassians only have 70 armor! that's a good 30 less than a warrior! And they do less damage? and they still think that they have godmode.

I've gotten pretty pissed also.

But, Now I can play prophicies in peace. the noobs all went to cantha.

It's worse than that. They also don't have a shield, that's another 16 AL or so. They also don't have an absorption rune, or a pair of knight's boots, or an absorption modifier from a shiled. That's a base 46 AL difference and -6 (using the affordable Major rune of absorption) or more damage reduction; on a hit for (for example) 80 physical damage versus AL60, an assassin takes 67 damage, while a warrior using a 16AL shield with -2 damage while enchanted, knights boots and a major absorption rune takes 24 damage. That's 35%damage!

And if the hits are smaller it's even better - a 50 damage hit vs AL 60 results in 42 damage to the assassin, but only 13 to the warrior, or about 30% of the damage, and hits for under 16 damage or so are actually 0 damage to the warrior, while the assassin will still suffer 12 damage for a hit at this level, making him infinitely more vulnerable.

No, there is much more than a 30 AL difference. On a 50 damage or so attack, the difference is the equivalent of about 70 AL.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 05, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Seems to me that the problem is people trying to tank using an assassin in the same manner as tanking with a warrior. Lets say the damage to defense ratio for a warior is 2:2 (or 1:1). Which means the warrior can dish out as much damage as he/she can take. The assassin is at 3:1. This is caused by the increased odds of doing critical hits combined with the doing double hits and skills that deal more damage plus the less armor a warrior has. I think the mistake anet made was creating a magic user melee character where you have to rely on your skills and magic to tank. The only problem I see is that there is not enough energy available to constantly use the skills (keeping them up) to do this succesfully so the assassin can tank but only in bursts. The most energy you can get is 32 with the +4 energy regen (unless you go with weapons that give you energy which defeats the purpose of using dagger mastery) which I think isn't enough to handle the high energy costs of the assassin's skills that you constantly have to use to survive at the front line and not be a healers burden. Although the assassin can get up to 3 energy back per critical hit while increasing the odds of doing criticals but a better setup would be what the ranger has. Reduce the energy cost as points are put into the attribute.

As for monks. Stop being so god damn high and mighty about yourselves.

Elrodien · May 05, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

The amount of assasins in the Euro quarters is pretty scary at the mission outposts, purely for the fact that everyone wants to play them (including me).

I think it takes a while before people realise that Assasins are not tanks and once that clicks, you usually see the more cautious hit and run tactics employed (if the player has any sense that is).

I'm just taking my time around Cantha so hopefuly by the time I get to the tricky parts, the assasin population should have thinned out, and I might just get the chance to get into a group or two.

Drow Lor · May 05, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Is one pissed off Healer your in game name?

Quit complaining

unsigned.

I too have noticed this activity....Playing my monk the other night, the only guy I had to revive twice was the Sin. I was not upset about it, but I never thought about how the character was designed to "hit and run".

KESKI · May 05, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I remeber my exact word to my friend when I use assassin during the test run. "So this is a melee ranger?"
70al is not much of defence for all those lv 20+ foes out there in pve, and dont forget, the highest block and evade rate in assassin skills are 55%.
Even a warrior with 90 def+75% block get own sometime...what do you expect. Of course, in pvp that is a different story.
I am using my assassin like a short range ranger in pve marksmanship+deadly, only time I go for dagger is for distrrupt, I only have savage shot in maksmanship for that. I am not saying this is the best or the only way, i dont know all the build that is out there, but this one work for me=P

Assassin is a good class, no question about it, but its just not tank material in starter, the best I can get out of it is using the dagger block elite(which I forget the name) and gaurdian, that give a good chance for block and evade, I cant even use warrior tactic, cause that elite is a stance, and same goes for mes stance...I also tried pushing the def higher, it just dont work well in pve.

Athenia · May 05, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Looking at all the concensus opinions on this thread (and in several other threads on this board) and the attitudes towards assassins in game, it looks like I should just delete my assassin because 1) other players just don't want to 'deal' with someone who is playing one and 2) I won't get to far in the missions without the help of people who have selective elitist attitudes.

I am a veteran of prophesies campaign since its inception and I have NEVER seen so many players out right reject someone because the all assume that a assassin is played by a n00b. That is why I have finished all the quests offered in the town and outpost and surrounding area but have yet to even progress in the missions. And since my char is a 20 A/Me (one elite and ALL the skills offered up to the point where I have access to V-Quarters), I get horrible replies like "WTF? A mesmer secondary, forget it, you're gonna die" and I get kicked. This didn't happen once, but several time at V-Quarters mission. And I have even YET step into the mission because of this.

There should be a new term in the gaming world, IGS - In Game Snob. This is a video game design to promote players to play with other players but instead you have people complain about how much other characters/professions suck or how one profession is better than another or how they will go on strike and refusing to play with certain professions. Thus ruining the whole experience for other like me because people make generalization all across the broad spectrum. So you get on person who plays an assassin who thinks he's a freaking tank and ruins your mission. Does that mean ALL people are like that? No. And I don't think its fair for such attitudes to subjected to others.

As for my A/Me build, I think its successful enough that it allows me to fight bosses to skill cap, get rune drops and completely finish all the quests that are available with less than 15 deaths (I kept track of the /deaths before I started my A/Me and to where I am now.

So all I can say is, please people, be considerate of others who are playing assassins. Yes, this is a new profession and nearly everyone and their mother is playing this profession. It is a new game and people will want to try something new but that doesn't mean everyone playing an assassin is n00b.